(no subject)

[purplerabbit]

I have been frequently (and particularly recently) shocked at the number of married people who seem to make major life decisions without first having the agreement (or sometimes even input) of their spouse(s). Or feel justified in withholding important information from their spouse(s). I don't understand how they can even begin to justify such behavior.

Two sections from our family Commitment Agreement include:

We make all major decisions by consensus. .... Major decisions include financial, legal, medical, parenting, time managment, relationships, and household resources.

We have a commitment to honesty including full disclosure to each other. We do not withhold important information from each other. We will not make promises to other people that include lying to or lies of omission from each other.

So I have some questions for my friends here:

1. If you are in a committed relationship, are these provisions part of your marriage/commitment agreement? Why or why not?


2. If you are not in a currently in a committed relationship, would these be part of an agreement you would make? Why or why not?


3. If you and your committed partner have not discussed the details of what your commitment to each other entails, why or why not?

Please keep your comments civil. I really want to hear how folks deal with these issues.

Comments

[tenacious-snail.livejournal.com]

I have agreements along those lines with most of my partners, and we're not married to each other. Including the notion that honesty is a more important value than keeping the other portions of the agreement. (IOW, if I violate the safer sex agreement, I should *tell* my partners about it, because honesty is the more important value.)

[weirdodragoncat.livejournal.com]

We don't currently have much in the way of written agreements but we're working on it. Communication breakdown has been a major stressor to our relationship. Somehow, we've still managed to weather the storms. I do intend on having a complete (or as complete as possible) set of written agreements...hopefully in the near future.

[lady-equine.livejournal.com]

Hmmmm. A not-easy question, with some not-easy answers, I think.

I have 4 sweethearts. The first is married and while we are very fond of each other, we're not sure how our lives may yet intertwine. The second is a life partner. The third is married with a child (and a very full life). The fourth is still rather young.

And I have a ranch partner, who is not a sweetheart.

My finances are currently my own business. I have made commitments to my life partner and to my ranch partner that I am honor bound to meet, but otherwise, I am not obligated to any disclosure. As a courtesy, I keep them informed as to major financial changes as they come up, such as job changes.

Legal decisions don't come up much. I have legal obligations and intentions regarding the ranch with my ranch partner that we have written up in contract. I am not married, so that legal obligation does not have weight for me at this time.

Medical decisions are also my own, but I keep all informed as a courtesy.

Parenting decisions will be mine and my life partner's. My ranch partner will also have a strong say with my children, as I will with his...we are functioning like an extended family, it is like how an uncle has a say in parenting when the uncle is also part of the household.

Time management is independantly managed. Our needs are communicated to each other, but the actual management is our own.

Relationship decisions are largely independantly managed. However, there is a great deal of sympathy and empathy required by all involved. Rules of hospitality for guest and host are very important at the ranch. This means that if a household member is dating someone that the others do not like or get along with, we are very courteous about not stepping on each others toes. This involves some key communication sometimes and is why we have a very good relationship counselor for when we can't figure our way through something on our own. The intent here is for everyone who lives at the ranch to feel at home and is comfortable having guests and in interacting with other people's guests. Notification that guests are due is by courtesy and tho' not required is certainly quickly explained with embarassment when notification has not been given. "Date nights" are a special circumstance. Notification is required, but has become pretty relaxed. Short notice means that permission can be denied. "Date nights" pretty much mean that sex noises can be expected. "Date nights" also mean that housemate interaction with your date can be expected to be minimal, so you can enjoy your special time together.

Household resources. Well, I'm not sure what this entails. My ranch partner and I are the bread winners of the ranch, so we pretty much do all the shopping and simply swap off now and then. Special needs for the ranch count as investments in the ranch and we are each credited as appropriate. We try to juggle bathroom, kitchen, and tv use as courteous housemates.

In summary, my decisions are mostly my own, but with carefully stated obligations. Meeting those obligations is what allows me my decision making freedom. I try to keep everyone informed on my dating/relationship choices, but other than making sure that everyone can feel safe in their own home, I'm blessed with very little obligation on this one.

The wonderful thing about all this is it means that I can buy a horse with little other than polite notification necessary. *big grin* Very important for a horse person. And I can buy a saddle with no notification at all necessary.

[deedeebythebay.livejournal.com]

coyote3502 and I, while not having written agreements, have very clear understandings with each other and what you have written above in italics is pretty much the way it is with us. It is a matter of respect. Because I like to live my life as much as an open book as possible, many of these things might very well be discussed with my secondary partner who may or may not have input or a need to give approval or disapproval depending on what the circumstance is. But if a secondary were to become a co-primary, you can be damn sure they would be on the receiving end as well as the expecting end of the exact same standard.

[crankles.livejournal.com]

We don't have a contract written out like that, but we have promised each of the above to each other, and meant it. This is mostly because we have watched people's relationships (including our own past relationships) deteriorate due to lack of communication and lack of honesty.

Our upcoming marriage vows will be specific on honesty and ommunication.

[zpdiduda.livejournal.com]

We do not have a written agreement, but we have discussed and accepted the provisions you describe above. Perfect adherence to all of those provisions, granted, is another story...:/

[thats-ms-dragon.livejournal.com]

We make all major decisions by consensus. .... Major decisions include financial, legal, medical, parenting, time managment, relationships, and household resources.

We had this as the stated ideal but many decisions were made by one person because of time issues or knowledge. It in fact was probably the most destructive thing in our relationship to be honest. We would sit down and discuss this, but the decisions were never unanimous and the ones that were most significant, the person who cared the most or had the time ended up doing whatever zie wanted. It sucked.

Currently, Ag and I are trying to make sure that this is what we are doing. We are informing each other of even insignificant decisions so that they are not a shock or surprise to either of us. We are talking about possibilities and potential issues even before they arise. I know what he is thinking about and what would happen if I did certain things. I also know what his expectations are. It is working better for us.


We have a commitment to honesty including full disclosure to each other. We do not withhold important information from each other. We will not make promises to other people that include lying to or lies of omission from each other.

I think my lying to Ag or being deceptive to him right now would be a deal ender. I don't want to ever do it. I know that if I was in a relationship with anyone in the future and zie started lying to me or being deceptive or excluding me from zie's life, I would cut the relationship totally. I will not put up with it. Lying is the deal breaker. I wouldn't want to be with someone like that.



I think these are great points to have. I don't have a written relationship agreement at this time. I don't know if I need one in the current relationship, but would not object to one if it was proposed. It does make a lot of sense in some ways. I just know that our lives are in such a state of flux right now that I don't want to rock the boat too much or make an agreement that would need to change in just a few months after we go through the process of formulating one.

[beanolc.livejournal.com]

leofwine and I had two agreements to start with in our relationship, when we realized we had gotten serious and wanted to commit to each other. The first was in regards to children; neither of us want them, but agreed to leave it an open issue because of my age at the time. Fortunately for us both, as I got older, I got more sure. The second was the issue of monogamy; neither of us wanted to share. We both felt it important to agree 100% on both issues.

Over the years, we have adopted those you list above as routine practice. Once we got through our learning curve, it really became second nature.

Like you, I am surprised when these things aren't the norm in other relationships.

[aleeceh.livejournal.com]

I have only one life partner, my husband. Our other relationships have many enjoyable and worthwhile aspects, but they are not on the partnership track. We have no written agreements between ourselves or with our other love(r)s, though it's something I've been meaning to do, but it's a bit of a daunting task. I'd love to see a book of examples to help me decide what needs to be included.

We're just lucky, I guess, in that we seem to function well with just a few explicit verbal agreements (rules about safer sex and what's okay in terms of outside partners, for example) and otherwise just sort of following "the golden rule." I'm not saying this how everyone should do things, just that more formal agreements haven't been necessary for us. I like that we can just trust each other to do the right thing, and I think that's a big reason we've been together for 25 years.

[adnar-el.livejournal.com]

They are a very important part of mine!
I dont think I phrased them quite as eloquently, but we had the talk/agreement long ago. and we make sure they stick. no lies, no omissions, just love. Sometimes, tho, I wonder if Id of been better off not knowing. LOL!
-Mir